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	<title>Comments on: The Difference Between a Cell Group and a Small Group &#124; A Response</title>
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	<description>Pushing Boundary-Free GroupLife</description>
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		<title>By: Mark Howell</title>
		<link>http://www.markhowelllive.com/the-difference-between-a-cell-group-and-a-small-group-a-response/comment-page-1/#comment-580</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Howell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:16:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markhowelllive.com/?p=2029#comment-580</guid>
		<description>Glad you were able to pick up some good ideas Matt!  Keep coming back!

mark</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad you were able to pick up some good ideas Matt!  Keep coming back!</p>
<p>mark</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Harmer</title>
		<link>http://www.markhowelllive.com/the-difference-between-a-cell-group-and-a-small-group-a-response/comment-page-1/#comment-579</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Harmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 03:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markhowelllive.com/?p=2029#comment-579</guid>
		<description>Mark,

Thanks for the reply. It makes a whole lot of sense... and it&#039;s causing me to analyze our emphasis even more. That and some creative thinking never killed anyone, right?! :-)

Mike,

I appreciate the encouragement. Indeed, I am gaining so much from all of you who have beat the path ahead of me. I&#039;ll look into 1:1 coaching. Thanks!
--
Matt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,</p>
<p>Thanks for the reply. It makes a whole lot of sense&#8230; and it&#8217;s causing me to analyze our emphasis even more. That and some creative thinking never killed anyone, right?! <img src='http://www.markhowelllive.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Mike,</p>
<p>I appreciate the encouragement. Indeed, I am gaining so much from all of you who have beat the path ahead of me. I&#8217;ll look into 1:1 coaching. Thanks!<br />
&#8211;<br />
Matt</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Howell</title>
		<link>http://www.markhowelllive.com/the-difference-between-a-cell-group-and-a-small-group-a-response/comment-page-1/#comment-559</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Howell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markhowelllive.com/?p=2029#comment-559</guid>
		<description>Thanks Steve!  Love hearing what&#039;s happening at Beacon Church!  It does sound like your groups are very inclusive.  That&#039;s fantastic!

I love your summary that &quot;A fair, prayerful balance of accountability/training and Spirit-led risk are what’s required.&quot;  That is right at the heart of the discussion here over the last 48 hours.

Hope you join us again!

mark</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Steve!  Love hearing what&#8217;s happening at Beacon Church!  It does sound like your groups are very inclusive.  That&#8217;s fantastic!</p>
<p>I love your summary that &#8220;A fair, prayerful balance of accountability/training and Spirit-led risk are what’s required.&#8221;  That is right at the heart of the discussion here over the last 48 hours.</p>
<p>Hope you join us again!</p>
<p>mark</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Dunn</title>
		<link>http://www.markhowelllive.com/the-difference-between-a-cell-group-and-a-small-group-a-response/comment-page-1/#comment-558</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Dunn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markhowelllive.com/?p=2029#comment-558</guid>
		<description>Great discussion. We at Beacon Church (in Kent, UK) have Cell groups and my wife and I are responsible for supporting and coaching our groups&#039; leaders. We have regular meetings with our leaders for discussion of critical issues and training in various areas of small group leadership - discipleship, meeting dynamics, people-types, community-building, awareness of community- and momentum-killers, developing giftings, etc. We are doing our utmost to ensure that every group is Christ-centred and INCLUSIVE - not holding hands in a circle looking IN, but holding hands in a circle looking OUT, if you can forgive the cheesy picture. One of our groups held a Fireworks party at our house recently and the group of 15 had 45 non-church guests join us! Building bridges with the people we already know and love for the Gospel...

We at Beacon Church are always keen to see the potential in all our folk - particularly with future small group leadership in mind - but we do feel strongly that integrity and mentoring are vital. I see what you&#039;re saying regarding &quot;freeing&quot; up the process for folks to start/lead a group, but accountability still needs to be in place to protect the flock. Yes, there&#039;s always a need for new leaders, but it&#039;s far harder to remove someone from leadership when things go awry than to put safeguards in in the first place. This is His flock we&#039;re shepherding and we need to do it right. A fair, prayerful balance of accountability/training and Spirit-led risk are what&#039;s required...

Oh, and we have no problem with the name &quot;Cell&quot; - in fact, here in the UK we&#039;ve found it opens up for great conversations with non-Church friends about the church as His BODY when they ask why we call them &quot;Cell&quot; groups. I can, however, see why some may find it difficult.

Great blog!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great discussion. We at Beacon Church (in Kent, UK) have Cell groups and my wife and I are responsible for supporting and coaching our groups&#8217; leaders. We have regular meetings with our leaders for discussion of critical issues and training in various areas of small group leadership &#8211; discipleship, meeting dynamics, people-types, community-building, awareness of community- and momentum-killers, developing giftings, etc. We are doing our utmost to ensure that every group is Christ-centred and INCLUSIVE &#8211; not holding hands in a circle looking IN, but holding hands in a circle looking OUT, if you can forgive the cheesy picture. One of our groups held a Fireworks party at our house recently and the group of 15 had 45 non-church guests join us! Building bridges with the people we already know and love for the Gospel&#8230;</p>
<p>We at Beacon Church are always keen to see the potential in all our folk &#8211; particularly with future small group leadership in mind &#8211; but we do feel strongly that integrity and mentoring are vital. I see what you&#8217;re saying regarding &#8220;freeing&#8221; up the process for folks to start/lead a group, but accountability still needs to be in place to protect the flock. Yes, there&#8217;s always a need for new leaders, but it&#8217;s far harder to remove someone from leadership when things go awry than to put safeguards in in the first place. This is His flock we&#8217;re shepherding and we need to do it right. A fair, prayerful balance of accountability/training and Spirit-led risk are what&#8217;s required&#8230;</p>
<p>Oh, and we have no problem with the name &#8220;Cell&#8221; &#8211; in fact, here in the UK we&#8217;ve found it opens up for great conversations with non-Church friends about the church as His BODY when they ask why we call them &#8220;Cell&#8221; groups. I can, however, see why some may find it difficult.</p>
<p>Great blog!</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Mack</title>
		<link>http://www.markhowelllive.com/the-difference-between-a-cell-group-and-a-small-group-a-response/comment-page-1/#comment-557</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Mack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 20:48:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markhowelllive.com/?p=2029#comment-557</guid>
		<description>Matt, Love your questions and thinking! You also raise a very good point about small group point people needing some good solid mentoring. It&#039;s great to read books, articles, and blogs, but there&#039;s nothing like one-on-one coaching, especially for those just getting started leading a groups ministry. Several of us are doing this already. I&#039;m coaching the new point person at a church in Philly and finding it very valuable for both of us. I know Randall is offering some 1:1 coaching as well. I really encourage you to follow up on this!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, Love your questions and thinking! You also raise a very good point about small group point people needing some good solid mentoring. It&#8217;s great to read books, articles, and blogs, but there&#8217;s nothing like one-on-one coaching, especially for those just getting started leading a groups ministry. Several of us are doing this already. I&#8217;m coaching the new point person at a church in Philly and finding it very valuable for both of us. I know Randall is offering some 1:1 coaching as well. I really encourage you to follow up on this!</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Howell</title>
		<link>http://www.markhowelllive.com/the-difference-between-a-cell-group-and-a-small-group-a-response/comment-page-1/#comment-554</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Howell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 15:15:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markhowelllive.com/?p=2029#comment-554</guid>
		<description>Thanks for jumping in Matt!  Makes a lot of sense to use a term that is friendly to the folks who attend your church.  Life Groups, Community Groups, Home Teams, etc., are all that...a friendly term that connects with people.

On the question, the decision to use a crowd-to-core vs core-to-crowd strategy has a lot to do with the programs you will emphasize.  Churches that execute really well on their strategy will clarify what a win is for them, build steps that lead to that win, and narrow the focus so their congregation doesn&#039;t suffer from &quot;decision paralysis.&quot;  They may offer some programs that do the other...but they won&#039;t emphasize them.  Doing that will diffuse their impact.

mark</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for jumping in Matt!  Makes a lot of sense to use a term that is friendly to the folks who attend your church.  Life Groups, Community Groups, Home Teams, etc., are all that&#8230;a friendly term that connects with people.</p>
<p>On the question, the decision to use a crowd-to-core vs core-to-crowd strategy has a lot to do with the programs you will emphasize.  Churches that execute really well on their strategy will clarify what a win is for them, build steps that lead to that win, and narrow the focus so their congregation doesn&#8217;t suffer from &#8220;decision paralysis.&#8221;  They may offer some programs that do the other&#8230;but they won&#8217;t emphasize them.  Doing that will diffuse their impact.</p>
<p>mark</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Harmer</title>
		<link>http://www.markhowelllive.com/the-difference-between-a-cell-group-and-a-small-group-a-response/comment-page-1/#comment-553</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Harmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 03:03:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markhowelllive.com/?p=2029#comment-553</guid>
		<description>Hi Guys,

I just wanted to say that I think I could use some intense mentoring from both of you. Reading posts like these makes me realize that I&#039;ve got a lot to learn about small group life and building Biblical community. 

I really just wanted to say that, for me, the difference between &quot;cell&quot; and &quot;small&quot; has everything to do with the connotation the word &quot;cell&quot; calls to mind for the bulk of our church constituency. You see, Manna Church is located in Fayetteville, NC. We&#039;re next door neighbors to the largest concentration of US special operations soldiers in the nation, and therefore have (I&#039;d wager) the largest concentration of Christ-following special forces soldiers of any church. To them, a &quot;Cell&quot; is what they&#039;re hunting in the middle east. For that simple reason, we use the term &quot;small groups.&quot;

I realize that the discussion taking place has much more to do with the philosophy driving the type of group ministry and far less to do with the semantics of the different terms, but I couldn&#039;t help throwing that out there. :-)

As it relates to the philosophy, can it not work from crowd-to-core-to-crowd AND from core-to-crowd-to-core?

Am I missing it?
--
Matt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Guys,</p>
<p>I just wanted to say that I think I could use some intense mentoring from both of you. Reading posts like these makes me realize that I&#8217;ve got a lot to learn about small group life and building Biblical community. </p>
<p>I really just wanted to say that, for me, the difference between &#8220;cell&#8221; and &#8220;small&#8221; has everything to do with the connotation the word &#8220;cell&#8221; calls to mind for the bulk of our church constituency. You see, Manna Church is located in Fayetteville, NC. We&#8217;re next door neighbors to the largest concentration of US special operations soldiers in the nation, and therefore have (I&#8217;d wager) the largest concentration of Christ-following special forces soldiers of any church. To them, a &#8220;Cell&#8221; is what they&#8217;re hunting in the middle east. For that simple reason, we use the term &#8220;small groups.&#8221;</p>
<p>I realize that the discussion taking place has much more to do with the philosophy driving the type of group ministry and far less to do with the semantics of the different terms, but I couldn&#8217;t help throwing that out there. <img src='http://www.markhowelllive.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>As it relates to the philosophy, can it not work from crowd-to-core-to-crowd AND from core-to-crowd-to-core?</p>
<p>Am I missing it?<br />
&#8211;<br />
Matt</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Howell</title>
		<link>http://www.markhowelllive.com/the-difference-between-a-cell-group-and-a-small-group-a-response/comment-page-1/#comment-552</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Howell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 22:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markhowelllive.com/?p=2029#comment-552</guid>
		<description>Thanks Randall!  I really appreciate your response to my response!

Much as I appreciate your willingness to share your point of view, I would say that the typical American church attender has never really practiced the priesthood of the believer and that the church growth movement of the past three decades has been an attempt to reach unchurched people in the most effective way.  Not in an attempt to skirt the practice...simply in a way that had the best chance of having the biggest impact.

I&#039;m unfamiliar with either church you mention...but will check them out.  I&#039;m curious to learn how what they&#039;re really doing will compare with the churches I am more familiar with.

Thanks for jumping in!

mark</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Randall!  I really appreciate your response to my response!</p>
<p>Much as I appreciate your willingness to share your point of view, I would say that the typical American church attender has never really practiced the priesthood of the believer and that the church growth movement of the past three decades has been an attempt to reach unchurched people in the most effective way.  Not in an attempt to skirt the practice&#8230;simply in a way that had the best chance of having the biggest impact.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m unfamiliar with either church you mention&#8230;but will check them out.  I&#8217;m curious to learn how what they&#8217;re really doing will compare with the churches I am more familiar with.</p>
<p>Thanks for jumping in!</p>
<p>mark</p>
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		<title>By: Randall Neighbour</title>
		<link>http://www.markhowelllive.com/the-difference-between-a-cell-group-and-a-small-group-a-response/comment-page-1/#comment-551</link>
		<dc:creator>Randall Neighbour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 22:32:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markhowelllive.com/?p=2029#comment-551</guid>
		<description>Mark, Sam asked for that article specifically so I wrote it to answer the question as succinctly as I could and hopefully spark some dialog, which worked!

For me, small group life and ministry is not about cell groups or small groups or big groups or small groups or crowd to core or core to crowd strategies. In fact, the only strategy I care about is how to support the saints better as they do the work of their ministry.

And therein lies the problem. So few American churches have an abundance of saints who are doing the work of ministry and need strategic support from pastors.

What I see is pastors and few highly skilled or gifted lay people doing the work of ministry themselves via large events, and doing it out of sheer frustration with the lack of initiative found within their membership. Over the course of the last two decades, the American church has abandoned the priesthood of all believers for consumer Christianity.

When I view world-class cell-based churches, I see a highly relational organism of interdependent Biblical communities filled with missional believers ... who gather for celebration and leverage those large gatherings for all it can provide.

See the difference? It&#039;s huge. 

What very few people understand about healthy cell-based churches is that the members provide the missional thrust of the church ... not the lead pastor, not the staff, and it&#039;s not focused on the big facility in which they gather for celebration. 

If you were to study LifeChurch in Katy Texas or Antioch Church in Waco, Texas (just two examples of healthy American cell-based churches) from a pastoral perspective, it looks like well-managed chaos. Staff members are reactive and responsive for the most part. The members of the groups are doing all sorts of things to reach friends for Christ through relational evangelism and need a course correction and encouragement from time to time, but not motivation to bring friends to church on Sunday so they can hear the gospel.

Like Mike Mack stated above, I could go on and on about all this but I will end it here. I really have no desire to get everyone to agree with me. I just want to help those who want to see organic, relational growth overrun anything a few high profile personalities can do with a microphone in a consumer church structure. Far more is written in my book, but I don&#039;t talk about cells as much as I talk about the American church as it pertains to doing church through small groups.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, Sam asked for that article specifically so I wrote it to answer the question as succinctly as I could and hopefully spark some dialog, which worked!</p>
<p>For me, small group life and ministry is not about cell groups or small groups or big groups or small groups or crowd to core or core to crowd strategies. In fact, the only strategy I care about is how to support the saints better as they do the work of their ministry.</p>
<p>And therein lies the problem. So few American churches have an abundance of saints who are doing the work of ministry and need strategic support from pastors.</p>
<p>What I see is pastors and few highly skilled or gifted lay people doing the work of ministry themselves via large events, and doing it out of sheer frustration with the lack of initiative found within their membership. Over the course of the last two decades, the American church has abandoned the priesthood of all believers for consumer Christianity.</p>
<p>When I view world-class cell-based churches, I see a highly relational organism of interdependent Biblical communities filled with missional believers &#8230; who gather for celebration and leverage those large gatherings for all it can provide.</p>
<p>See the difference? It&#8217;s huge. </p>
<p>What very few people understand about healthy cell-based churches is that the members provide the missional thrust of the church &#8230; not the lead pastor, not the staff, and it&#8217;s not focused on the big facility in which they gather for celebration. </p>
<p>If you were to study LifeChurch in Katy Texas or Antioch Church in Waco, Texas (just two examples of healthy American cell-based churches) from a pastoral perspective, it looks like well-managed chaos. Staff members are reactive and responsive for the most part. The members of the groups are doing all sorts of things to reach friends for Christ through relational evangelism and need a course correction and encouragement from time to time, but not motivation to bring friends to church on Sunday so they can hear the gospel.</p>
<p>Like Mike Mack stated above, I could go on and on about all this but I will end it here. I really have no desire to get everyone to agree with me. I just want to help those who want to see organic, relational growth overrun anything a few high profile personalities can do with a microphone in a consumer church structure. Far more is written in my book, but I don&#8217;t talk about cells as much as I talk about the American church as it pertains to doing church through small groups.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Howell</title>
		<link>http://www.markhowelllive.com/the-difference-between-a-cell-group-and-a-small-group-a-response/comment-page-1/#comment-550</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Howell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 22:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markhowelllive.com/?p=2029#comment-550</guid>
		<description>Thanks for jumping in Brian!  Love the way you&#039;re thinking and the questions you&#039;re asking.  Let me take a shot at answering your questions here, but it probably will result in a more comprehensive answer in another post.

First, I prefer the &quot;wild west approach&quot; because of the upside and the fact that I can mitigate the risks by doing certain things.  For example, if I lower the bar in terms of who can lead (as Saddleback did this last fall when they allowed anyone to pick up the curriculum for Life&#039;s Healing Choices and invite their friends to join a group), I can control the risk by only listing groups led by members on the web.  Additionally, I can require all hosts to attend an orientation in order to pick up the material.  Or I can require new hosts to have a connection with a coach that I assign.  I like the fact that by lowering the bar I can make it possible for a much larger number of people to connect.

What are the problems associated with the cell group/church strategy?  Generally there is a need for a deeper front-end commitment and more extensive leader training.  This produces a much higher degree of difficulty for recruiting a sufficient quantity of qualified leaders.  The reluctance to commit to leading combined with the inefficiency of successful apprentice recruitment and launching leads to an inability to produce enough leaders to enfold the unconnected in a growing church.

See where I&#039;m going?  I like the problems that come with the wild west approach.

mark</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for jumping in Brian!  Love the way you&#8217;re thinking and the questions you&#8217;re asking.  Let me take a shot at answering your questions here, but it probably will result in a more comprehensive answer in another post.</p>
<p>First, I prefer the &#8220;wild west approach&#8221; because of the upside and the fact that I can mitigate the risks by doing certain things.  For example, if I lower the bar in terms of who can lead (as Saddleback did this last fall when they allowed anyone to pick up the curriculum for Life&#8217;s Healing Choices and invite their friends to join a group), I can control the risk by only listing groups led by members on the web.  Additionally, I can require all hosts to attend an orientation in order to pick up the material.  Or I can require new hosts to have a connection with a coach that I assign.  I like the fact that by lowering the bar I can make it possible for a much larger number of people to connect.</p>
<p>What are the problems associated with the cell group/church strategy?  Generally there is a need for a deeper front-end commitment and more extensive leader training.  This produces a much higher degree of difficulty for recruiting a sufficient quantity of qualified leaders.  The reluctance to commit to leading combined with the inefficiency of successful apprentice recruitment and launching leads to an inability to produce enough leaders to enfold the unconnected in a growing church.</p>
<p>See where I&#8217;m going?  I like the problems that come with the wild west approach.</p>
<p>mark</p>
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